Rules Questions, The Pirate Code, and the No-Duplicates List

[woelf]

Here's the thread to use for any and all questions about the rules, keywords, abilities, or anything else involving with playing the game. Please post here instead of creating individual threads for each question.

A link to the previous rules thread (for reference purposes only) can be found here: Find Answers about Rules, Keywords and Other Questions Here



If you need the rulesheets that came with the game, scans of the Savage Shores sheet can be found here:
Savage Shores Rulebook (Front)
Savage Shores Rulebook (Back)




As of December 2016 there's a new version of The Pirate Code available!

A link to that and two other useful files can be found at BoardGameGeek (you'll need a BGG account to download, but you should have one of those anyways):
The Pirate Code (FAQ/Errata)
Master Keyword List
Reference Diagrams

[woelf]

Below is the most current version of the No-Duplicates Rule Master List. Use this as a guide to help resolve any questions you might have about whether or not two ships or crew are allowed to be used together in the same fleet.

The previous thread (for reference purposes only) can be found here: The No-Duplicates Rule (Master List)

DISCLAIMER: This list is not 100% complete, and some items still need to be verified. If you know of anything that's missing or incorrect please post it and I'll update the list. If you disagree with anything that's already on the list, feel free to discuss it, but make sure you've got some evidence (flavor text, etc.) to back it up.

I'm going to be converting these over to use MT's built-in database (pop-up) links, but that will be an ongoing process.

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CREW:

(Exact) Same Name, Same Spelling, Same Person
-Calico Cat (SM) = Calico Cat (SCS) = Calico Cat (OE) = Calico Cat (RotF)
-Master Bianco (SM) = Master Bianco (SS)
-Bianco's Haulers (SM) = Bianco's Haulers (SS)
-Luis Zuan (MI) = Luis Zuan (RotF) = Luis Zuan (F&S)
-Victor de Alva (OE) = Victor de Alva (F&S)
-Various others that need to be listed - no known exceptions(?)

Different Name, Title, or Spelling, Same Person
-Capitan Alarico Castro (SM) = Admiral Alarico Castro (BC)
-Captain Blackheart (SM) = Captain Blackheart (BC) = Blackheart (DJC) = Emperor Blackheart (OE) = Blackheart (RotF)
-Captain Mission (MI) = Captain Mysion (RotF) = Captain Mysion (F&S)
-Jack Sparrow (DPotC) = Captain Jack Sparrow (DPotC) = Cursed Captain Jack (DPotC)
-Chief PO Charles Richard (DJC) = Master CPO Charles Richard (OE) = Captain Charles Richard (SS)
-Commodore Rhys Gryffin Owen (CC) = Commodore Rhys Gryffyn Owen (BC)
-Davy Jones (DJC) = Davy Jones (OE) = Captain Davy Jones (DPotC)
-Dominick Freda (BC) = Dominic Freda (RotF) = Dominic Freda (RotF)
-El Fantasma (SM) = El Fantasma (SM) = El Phantasma (CC) = El Fantasma (SCS) = El Fantasma (DJC) = El Fantasma (OE) = El Fantasma (RotF)
-Elizabeth Swann (DPotC) = Captain Elizabeth Swann (DPotC)
-Hermione Gold (MI) = Hermione Gold (RotF) = Hermionie Gold (F&S)
-The Inquisitor (DJC) = Inquisitor (RotF) -- NOT Inquisitor Sebastian Blanco (CC)
-Captain Jack Hawkins (SM) = Jack Hawkins (CC) = Jack Hawkins (BC) = Jack Hawkins (DJC) = Jack Hawkins (OE)
-Monsieur LeNoir (CC) = Lenoir (RotF) = Lenoir (F&S)
-Admiral James Norrington (DPotC) = Norrington (DPotC)
-Ragetti = Damsel In Distress
-Sir Edmund Atkinson (DJC) = Sir Edmund (F&S)
-Thomas Gunn the Younger (SM) = Lord Thomas Gunn (OE) = Thomas Gunn (RotF) = Thomas Gunn (F&S) -- NOT Thomas Gunn the Elder (SM)
-Tia Dalma = Calypso


Similar Names, Different People
-Angria -- Kanhoji Angria and Yeshaji Angria are members of the same family but their exact relation is unknown.
-de Alva -- Comandante Luys de Alva is the father of Victor de Alva.
-Gunn -- Thomas Gunn the Elder is the father of Thomas Gunn the Younger (see above).
-Laffite -- Jean Laffite and Phillipe Laffite are brothers.
-The Spanish Inquisition -- Inquisitor Sebastian Blanco is an Inquisitor, not The Inquisitor (see above).
-Swann -- Governor Weatherby Swann is the father of Elizabeth Swann.
-Turner -- "Bootstrap Bill" Turner is the father of Will Turner.
-Zuan -- Fidel Zuan and Gaspar Zuan are brothers; Luis Zuan is their nephew.


------------------------------


UNIQUE TREASURES:

-Rum (SM) = Rum (PotC)
-Abandoned Crew (CC) / Abandoned Crew (MI) --- Duplication of Abandoned Crew is allowed on a "per card" basis, so if a crew appears twice on one card you may use both at once. You may also mix & match freely between the two different versions of this card, as long as the total number of any given crew token does not exceed the number found on a single card.


------------------------------


SHIPS:

Same/Similar Name, Same Ship
-Black Pearl (DPotC) = Black Pearl (damaged) (DPotC) = Black Pearl (DPotC)
-Deliverance (CC) = Deliverance (CC) = Deliverance (OE)
-El Acorazado (SM) = El Acorazado (OE)
-Empress (undamaged) (DPotC) = Empress (DPotC)
-Flying Dutchman (DJC) = Flying Dutchman (DPotC) = Flying Dutchman (DPotC)
-Harbinger (SM) = Harbinger (DJC)
-HMS Apollo (RotF) = HMS Apollo (RotF) = HMS Apollo (F&S) -- NOT HMS Apollo (REV)
-La Resolucion (SM) = La Resolucion (SM) = La Resolucion (OE)
-Le Bonaparte (DJC) = Le Bonaparte (OE)
-Le Coeur de Lion (SCS) = Le Coeur du Lion (OE) -- Note the change in ship type.
-Neptune's Hoard (REV) = Neptune's Hoard (OE)
-Santa Lucia (SCS) = Santa Lucia (OE)


Assumed for now, but unconfirmed (Use your best discretion until noted otherwise)
Amity (CC-009, F&S-404)
Clear Wind (SCS-011, OE-159)
Cutlass (RU-010, OE-212)
Divine Wind (SCS-006, OE-167)
East Wind (SCS-007, OE-155)
Floating Stone (SCS-081, OE-212)
Fool's Hope (RotF-001, -200)
HMS Stingray (RotF-006, -204)
La Ebro (MI-068, FN-053)
L'Afrique (BC-077, OE-078)
L'Auguste (CC-073, OE-075) - Possible Non-Match
Proud Tortoise (SCS-022, OE-36)
Royal Louis (RotF-029, F&S-044)
San Cristobal (RotF-006, -202)
Sea Crane (SCS-015 , OE-164)
Sea Duck (SCS-017, OE-160)
Sea Lion (SCS-013, OE-152)
Sea Phoenix (SCS-016, OE-156) - See also "Same Name/Different Ship" Below
Sea Serpent (SCS-012, OE-148)
Sea Tiger (SCS-014, OE-168) - See "Unknown/Unconfirmed" Below
Sea Wind (SCS-008, OE-147)
Tiger (RU-009, OE-211)
Typhoon (SCS-009, OE-163)
USS Atlanta (FN-076, OE-090)
Virtuous Wind (SCS-010, OE-151)
Weasel (RotF-005, -203)


Different Name, Same Ship
-Asesino de la Nave (SM)(GS-004) = Santiago (CC)
-Baochuan (SCS) = Zeus (OE) - See Note 1 below.
-Black Pearl (PotC-025)/(-026)/(-087) = Wicked Wench
-Constitution (Rev) = USS Constitution (OE)
-Grand Temple (SCS) = HMS Grand Temple (OE)
-HMS Bolingbroke (SM) = Bloody Throne (PP)
-L'Aguila (SM) = Eagle (CC)
-Lezard (-208) = HMS Lizard (-209) = Lizard (-210) = Lagarto (-211) = Sea Lizard (-212) = Lizard's Sting (-213) (F&S)
-HMS Morning Star (-202) = Morning Star (-203)/(-204)/(-205) = USS Morning Star (-206) = Mourning Star (-207) (F&S)
-Sea Phoenix (SCS)/(OE) = HMS Sea Phoenix (OE)


German Ships
These four ships appear only in the German-language version of the Spanish Main set.
Despite the alternate names and flavor texts, for gameplay purposes they are considered the same ships as their English-language counterparts.
-Bunte Kuh = El Ladron
-Roter Teufel = Raven's Neck
-Klabautermann = Treachery
-Sturmvogel = Batavian Bat


Same or Similar Name, Different Ship:
-Concord (Rev) ≠ Concord (BC) ≠ HMS Concorde (OE)
-Divine Dragon (MI) ≠ Divine Dragon (OE)
-El Algeciras (SCS) ≠ El Algeciras (OE)
-El Toro (BC) ≠ El Toro (OE)
-Executioner (Rev) ≠ Executioner (DJC)
-Fancy (CC) ≠ Fancy (PotC)
-Freedom (SM) ≠ Freedom (Rev)
-HMS Apollo (Rev) ≠ HMS Apollo (RotF-002)/(-201)/(F&S)
-HMS Diamond (PotC) ≠HMS Diamond (F&S)
-HMS Durham (BC) ≠ HMS Durham (FN)
-HMS Gibraltar (CC) ≠ Gibraltar (RotF)
-HMS Nautilus (Rev) ≠ Nautilus (MI)
-La Corse (SCS) ≠ La Corse (DJC)
-Lady's Scorn (SCS) ≠ Lady's Scorn (RotF) ≠ Lady's Scorn (F&S) - See Note 2 below.
-La Santa Ana (CC) ≠ Santa Ana (SCS) - See Note 3 below.
-Minuteman (BC) ≠ Minuteman (RotF)
-Needle (OE) ≠ Needle (RotF)
-Neptune (PotC) ≠ Neptune (F&S)
-Nightmare (DJC-021) ≠ Nightmare (DJC-145) ≠ Nightmare (OE)
-Pestilence (RotF) ≠ Pestilence (F&S)
-Ranger (CC) ≠ Ranger (PotC)
-Revenge (SM)/(PP) ≠ Revenge (PotC)
-Saratoga (Rev) ≠ Saratoga (DJC) ≠ Saratoga (RotF)
-Scepter (CC) ≠ Scepter (F&S)
-Scorpion (BC) ≠ Scorpion (RotF)
-Tiger (Rev) ≠ Tiger (OE)
-USS Mercury (MI) ≠ USS Mercury (RotF)


Notes:
All "Unlimited" items are considered the same as their non-Unlimited counterparts from the same set, despite having different collector numbers, unless specifically noted otherwise.

1) Baochuan (SCS) vs. Guichuan (DJC) vs. Zeus (OE)
Historically, “baochuan” was a generic name for a treasure ship, not necessarily a specific ship. Guichuan's flavor text does not refer to Baochuan by name, so the sunken ship that was raised to become the Guichuan could have been any ship of the same class or configuration. The flavor text for Zeus does refer to Baochuan by name, implying it to be the namesake ship of its class, and provides a definitive link between them, so it's safe to assume that Baochuan and Zeus are the same ship, while Guichuan is a different ship of the same class.

2) Lady's Scorn (SCS) vs. Lady's Scorn (RotF) vs. Lady's Scorn (F&S)
All three of these ships have connections to Calico Cat and share some similarities in stats and artwork, but the flavor text strongly suggests that they are all different ships that were controlled by Calico Cat at different points in her timeline. The similarities are assumed to be intentional, with each new ship being named after the previous one it replaced. As far as the rules are concerned, this means they are considered different ships that may be used together, even though it is unlikely that more than one was ever in use at the same time under the "Lady's Scorn" name.

3) La Santa Ana (CC) vs. Santa Ana (SCS)
These two ships share the same type (4-mast), but their stats are completely different and the flavor text in SCS makes no references whatsoever to the previous version. They’re most likely different ships, and with no definitive evidence to tie them together, they can be treated as such.


Unknown/Unconfirmed:
1) HMS Granville (BC) vs. HMS Granville (FN)
The flavor text in Frozen North suggests the ship was refit to become an icebreaker, but changing from a 3-mast schooner to an icebreaker is a rather extensive change. Most likely there was a different (unseen) ship with the same name in between that received the refit.

2) Sea Tiger (SCS) vs. Sea Tiger (OE-168) vs. USS Sea Tiger (OE-094)
Aside from the nationality change, the two Sea Tigers are an exact match in stats and are undoubtedly the same ship. The flavor text for USS Sea Tiger implies a connection, but its stats (and artwork) are quite a bit different from either Sea Tiger which suggest a different ship with a similar name. If USS Sea Tiger is the same ship, how does it fit in relation to the OE Sea Tiger?

[woelf]

Return to Savage Shores was a final set for Pirates that was fully designed and ready to go, but didn't quite make it into production before Wizkids was shut down by Topps, its parent company.

This unfortunately means that none of the items from the set exist in physical form, but you can at least see all of the stats and other info right here:
RtSS Flashback #1 - Intro (English & American)
RtSS Flashback #2 - French
RtSS Flashback #3 - Cursed
RtSS Flashback #4 - Pirate
RtSS Flashback #5 - English
RtSS Flashback #6 - American
RtSS Flashback #7 - Spanish
RtSS Flashback #8 - Unique Treasures
RtSS Flashback #9 - Super Rares - French & UT
RtSS Flashback #10 - Canoes - French, Pirate, & English
RtSS Flashback #11 - Special Edition - English, Pirate & Cursed
RtSS Flashback #12 - Special Edition - French, American, & Spanish
RtSS Flashback #13 - 10-Masters - Mercenary (American/Spanish)

[godmason]

Much appreciated, woelf. It's nice to see this game receiving attention and dedication even after being out of print for 8 years.

[a7xfanben]

Stickied! It's going to be a little weird having a new thread for this, and I'll probably look back at the old one sometimes (tons of great stuff in there, and very interesting rules discussions that can be rather complicated).

The real question now is, how fast can we get this one to 143 pages??

[brettb45]

Awesome! Thanks Woelf. Your continued assistance in this area of the game has been extremely helpful to everyone. Wish there was a way to repay you.

[woelf]

brettb45 wrote:

Wish there was a way to repay you.

Keep coming up with good rules questions, so I have an excuse to update the PC again in a few years!

[a7xfanben]

woelf wrote:

brettb45 wrote: Wish there was a way to repay you. Keep coming up with good rules questions, so I have an excuse to update the PC again in a few years!

Lol that's what I was going to say! Let's ask him more questions than ever before so he has to dedicate even more time to it!

[etcmn]

Thank Woelf! Can't tell you how much we appreciate your work on the rules updates!

[a7xfanben]

Well I guess I'll post the first question here. If a ship with guaranteed double actions has Maps of Hades aboard, can the owner of the ship choose to make the roll before the second action? Or does it always happen before the first action?

(I guess I'm answering my own question in a way, since you could bluff a sac and then not actually do it to avoid the UT, which doesn't make much sense)

[woelf]

a7xfanben wrote:

Well I guess I'll post the first question here.

I was wondering how long it would take before that happened!

Quote:

If a ship with guaranteed double actions has Maps of Hades aboard, can the owner of the ship choose to make the roll before the second action? Or does it always happen before the first action?

The roll always has to happen before the ship's first action, so you can't pass the effect off to a secondary action that may or may not actually occur.

[xerecs]

The Pirate Code wrote:

The Hostile keyword applies only when building your fleet and when placing crew from outside of the game.

I assume this means that the keyword applies when used in a non action pure campaign?

For an example, if I wanted to bring in Commodore Peregrine Stern but I had a Spanish ship already in my fleet, I wouldn't be able to do it until that Spanish ship is somehow no longer considered part of my fleet?

[a7xfanben]

xerecs wrote:

The Pirate Code wrote: The Hostile keyword applies only when building your fleet and when placing crew from outside of the game. I assume this means that the keyword applies when used in a non action pure campaign? For an example, if I wanted to bring in Commodore Peregrine Stern but I had a Spanish ship already in my fleet, I wouldn't be able to do it until that Spanish ship is somehow no longer considered part of my fleet?

I'm not sure if there's an official ruling on that... for flavor purposes I'd prefer that Hostile still applied for CG's when trying to bring new crew into the game.

Or, you could allow it, but if Stern's ship and the Spanish ship were ever in range of each other, they'd have to fire! (civil war!) (for even more thematic elements, perhaps Stern isn't told that he's being hired into a fleet that has Spaniards working within it as well. Then, when he sees them (perhaps within 3L or something) on "his" side, he flips out and attacks them!)

Might be something you'd have to work out with your fellow pirates.

[xerecs]

Hmm. I like the possibility of them shooting at each other if they get too close. I may implement that as one of the few house rules for this CG, which I had wanted to be as simple as possible.
Right now the Spanish ships in question are the Monarca and El Acorazado...

On another track, suppose you suicide a ship on a reef and it is wrecked, is it still technically part of your fleet, even though it cannot be moved or repaired?

[a7xfanben]

xerecs wrote:

On another track, suppose you suicide a ship on a reef and it is wrecked, is it still technically part of your fleet, even though it cannot be moved or repaired?

The Pirate Code wrote:

Reef -A wreck has effectively sunk, but the ship and all cargo aboard remains in play. A wreck may be explored by other ships, but otherwise cannot be given any actions and cannot use or be targeted by any abilities or other effects. -Crew (including crew with the Marine keyword) on a wreck cannot use or be targeted by any abilities, but can be loaded by any ship that explores the wreck. -Treasure on a wreck at the end of a game does not count toward victory for any player. -A wreck is not considered part of any player’s fleet.