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woelf
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Subject:    PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:46 pm Reply with quote

a7xfanben wrote:
What happens here? I understand that in real life, the physical cardboard part of the island would block the L-range shot since it's all "land", but here in VASSAL we house ruled that the shot could hit. Seems like a solid idea, though harder to sell in a physical game (especially with the different colors of the island card vs. the ocean).
If you were playing with physical pieces, the shot would most definitely be blocked by the "water" part of the island piece.


Because VASSAL doesn't include the outlines of the island pieces you can't determine line of sight based on them, so you have to go by the visible "land" parts of the island instead.
I'd say it's a legal shot in VASSAL games only.


It's debatable whether the light colored "ripples" in the water should count or not, but for the sake of argument, especially considering any odd cases that might come up on other configurations, it's probably better if they did block LOS.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:45 pm Reply with quote

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If there are more than two players, the players also add the gold value of treasure on their ships.


Yay or nay? Is this more fair to multiplayer setups somehow?

I'm working on my basic rules that I will use to teach new players and I want the 2 player and multiplayer rules to have less differences.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:20 pm Reply with quote

If a ship with a Navigator on board receives an extra action, how many of the two available move actions can be converted into a trade current roll?
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:28 pm Reply with quote

godmason wrote:
If a ship with a Navigator on board receives an extra action, how many of the two available move actions can be converted into a trade current roll?
You can use the Navigator with either or both of the actions, but you'll have to make a separate roll for each.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:44 pm Reply with quote

a7xfanben wrote:
Quote:
If there are more than two players, the players also add the gold value of treasure on their ships.


Yay or nay? Is this more fair to multiplayer setups somehow?

I'm working on my basic rules that I will use to teach new players and I want the 2 player and multiplayer rules to have less differences.
The multiplayer rules try to take into account things like the lack of the gold-splitting rule and the lack of the "more than half" endgame condition, but also issues like two or more players beating each other up while another sits back and wins.

I don't think there were be a ton of harm in applying those same rules to two-player, although you could end up with some weird "gamey" situations where one player buries a ship in fog or sails off in an odd directions because their opponent is blocking them from reaching their home island. Granted, things like that can happen in multiplayer too, although there you'll generally have at least one other player getting in between to disrupt things.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:54 pm Reply with quote

woelf wrote:
a7xfanben wrote:
Quote:
If there are more than two players, the players also add the gold value of treasure on their ships.


Yay or nay? Is this more fair to multiplayer setups somehow?

I'm working on my basic rules that I will use to teach new players and I want the 2 player and multiplayer rules to have less differences.
The multiplayer rules try to take into account things like the lack of the gold-splitting rule and the lack of the "more than half" endgame condition, but also issues like two or more players beating each other up while another sits back and wins.

I don't think there were be a ton of harm in applying those same rules to two-player, although you could end up with some weird "gamey" situations where one player buries a ship in fog or sails off in an odd directions because their opponent is blocking them from reaching their home island. Granted, things like that can happen in multiplayer too, although there you'll generally have at least one other player getting in between to disrupt things.


Sorry I was in a rush and didn't fully elaborate. I'm talking about not using that rule in multiplayer games, rather than including it in 2 player games. (and if there would be any problems with that)
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:59 pm Reply with quote

a7xfanben wrote:
Sorry I was in a rush and didn't fully elaborate. I'm talking about not using that rule in multiplayer games, rather than including it in 2 player games. (and if there would be any problems with that)
Yeah, it should work.

I think you'll be slightly more likely to run into the weird situation where a player that was completely wiped out wins because they have the most gold unloaded, but the "live" players can avoid ending the game if that's a concern.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:57 pm Reply with quote

Feel like this has been asked before, hopefully not. Can you use a sac crew to sac a crew on a derelict and not give any actions from it? (since you can't) In this case to prevent capture or the crew being used against you or sacced by an opponent.

Also, you can choose crew like Princess Arii Auraa for elimination? (since they don't have Ransom)

For Hidden Cove, is "nearest" measured from the ship you want to move or from the home island? (if used at the beginning of the game) Seems you can manipulate it based on how you dock your ship at the HI. (including sticking the stern out at certain angles)

If Captain Jack Sparrow is on a wild island and you give a ship an explore action to load him, can he immediately use his ability during that same action to trade a coin? (Actually I think I get it - it wouldn't be necessary because of the free crew transfer - you could essentially load CJS right before the explore action starts and pull it off that way, right?)

For a database edit of the Delusion, I followed the PC ruling in fixing the ship's cannons (4S-4L-3L-3L-3L-4L-3S-4S-3S-3S). However, for the two masts that are right next to each other, is there an established order for which goes first if there was a correct deckplate? I went left to right as if you were looking towards the ship's bow, and this seems correct based on the deckplate of the Shui Xian and matching those masts up.

Why did the keyword format on deckplates change over time? Seems to me the period is much more concrete to separate the keywords rather than commas, and also makes each word more impactful to see when reading the abilities of the ship. (makes database edits a bit odd too since I like the old way)

The database entry for Stinkpot Shot says "the target's crew can't use their abilities this turn." However, my physical card says "the target's crew can't use their abilities on her next turn." Which is right? Assuming the card is right this would totally change everything back in favor of how I thought of stinkpots before that mixup (last year I think).
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:57 pm Reply with quote

a7xfanben wrote:
Can you use a sac crew to sac a crew on a derelict and not give any actions from it? (since you can't) In this case to prevent capture or the crew being used against you or sacced by an opponent.
Technically, I suppose that would be legal.

Quote:
Also, you can choose crew like Princess Arii Auraa for elimination? (since they don't have Ransom)
First sentence of her ability says no.

Quote:
For Hidden Cove, is "nearest" measured from the ship you want to move or from the home island? (if used at the beginning of the game) Seems you can manipulate it based on how you dock your ship at the HI. (including sticking the stern out at certain angles)
"Nearest" for Hidden Cove is measured from ship you want to move.

Quote:
If Captain Jack Sparrow is on a wild island and you give a ship an explore action to load him, can he immediately use his ability during that same action to trade a coin? (Actually I think I get it - it wouldn't be necessary because of the free crew transfer - you could essentially load CJS right before the explore action starts and pull it off that way, right?)
If he's no already aboard the ship when given an explore action, he can't be used.

The free crew transfer trick only works if the ship was already docked and is exploring with a standard explore action. The free crew transfer can't interrupt a move+explore.

Quote:
For a database edit of the Delusion, I followed the PC ruling in fixing the ship's cannons (4S-4L-3L-3L-3L-4L-3S-4S-3S-3S). However, for the two masts that are right next to each other, is there an established order for which goes first if there was a correct deckplate? I went left to right as if you were looking towards the ship's bow, and this seems correct based on the deckplate of the Shui Xian and matching those masts up.
Front-to-back, left-to-right is intended to be the same as bow-to-stern, port-to-starboard. It's entirely possible that the order doesn't match on some of the 10-mast ships.

Quote:
Why did the keyword format on deckplates change over time? Seems to me the period is much more concrete to separate the keywords rather than commas, and also makes each word more impactful to see when reading the abilities of the ship. (makes database edits a bit odd too since I like the old way)
The same reason the text of some abilities changed over time despite still being the same ability. What that reason is, I don't know???

Quote:
The database entry for Stinkpot Shot says "the target's crew can't use their abilities this turn." However, my physical card says "the target's crew can't use their abilities on her next turn." Which is right? Assuming the card is right this would totally change everything back in favor of how I thought of stinkpots before that mixup (last year I think).
Physical card is considered correct, but make sure you've got the specific one from the same set. It's possible that the wording did change from one set to another.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:33 am Reply with quote

woelf wrote:
Quote:
If Captain Jack Sparrow is on a wild island and you give a ship an explore action to load him, can he immediately use his ability during that same action to trade a coin? (Actually I think I get it - it wouldn't be necessary because of the free crew transfer - you could essentially load CJS right before the explore action starts and pull it off that way, right?)
If he's no already aboard the ship when given an explore action, he can't be used.

The free crew transfer trick only works if the ship was already docked and is exploring with a standard explore action. The free crew transfer can't interrupt a move+explore.


But can't it happen at the end of the move+explore or right after? Sorry, this is a major point of confusion and I feel like I've played it different ways in the past.

Quote:
Quote:
The database entry for Stinkpot Shot says "the target's crew can't use their abilities this turn." However, my physical card says "the target's crew can't use their abilities on her next turn." Which is right? Assuming the card is right this would totally change everything back in favor of how I thought of stinkpots before that mixup (last year I think).
Physical card is considered correct, but make sure you've got the specific one from the same set. It's possible that the wording did change from one set to another.


I did have the exact card right next to me as I was typing my post; also the only equipment was from F&S so the only potential difference would be the LE version (which I don't have).

This totally changes everything then. The value and usefulness of stinkpot shots goes back to what I originally had them pegged at - a very nice cheap 1 point canceller effect that isn't even limited to one crew/ability. Wow, I'll have to start using them more again! Very Happy
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Subject:    PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:35 am Reply with quote

Can a ship with a Captain and Smokepot Specialist be given a shoot action to deposit a fog bank after a move action even with no enemies in her proximity/in range?
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Subject:    PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:55 pm Reply with quote

a7xfanben wrote:
woelf wrote:
Quote:
If Captain Jack Sparrow is on a wild island and you give a ship an explore action to load him, can he immediately use his ability during that same action to trade a coin? (Actually I think I get it - it wouldn't be necessary because of the free crew transfer - you could essentially load CJS right before the explore action starts and pull it off that way, right?)
If he's no already aboard the ship when given an explore action, he can't be used.

The free crew transfer trick only works if the ship was already docked and is exploring with a standard explore action. The free crew transfer can't interrupt a move+explore.


But can't it happen at the end of the move+explore or right after? Sorry, this is a major point of confusion and I feel like I've played it different ways in the past.
Correct. He has to already be on the ship when you first give the explore action or he won't work.

So, if he's already on the island when you arrive, the only "quick" way to make use of his ability that turn is to use the free crew transfer when the ship lands, then use an action generator to give the ship a full explore action.

You're better off just keeping him on your ship. Smile

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The database entry for Stinkpot Shot says "the target's crew can't use their abilities this turn." However, my physical card says "the target's crew can't use their abilities on her next turn." Which is right? Assuming the card is right this would totally change everything back in favor of how I thought of stinkpots before that mixup (last year I think).
Physical card is considered correct, but make sure you've got the specific one from the same set. It's possible that the wording did change from one set to another.


I did have the exact card right next to me as I was typing my post; also the only equipment was from F&S so the only potential difference would be the LE version (which I don't have).

This totally changes everything then. The value and usefulness of stinkpot shots goes back to what I originally had them pegged at - a very nice cheap 1 point canceller effect that isn't even limited to one crew/ability. Wow, I'll have to start using them more again! Very Happy
Both interpretations have benefits, but I agree that the "her next turn" version is more powerful. The "this turn" wording is really only useful for knocking out point reducers or Cargo Masters when a ship is overloaded, and the rare crew-based defensive ability.

The different versions of the wording had to come from somewhere, so (without actually checking physical cards) I suspect that Wizkids changed the wording a few times along the way and the text in the MT database got copied over from whichever was entered first.

What the ability should have done is shut down crew for the whole round, then there would be no debate. Granted, it would probably need to have its cost go up a bit too.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm Reply with quote

godmason wrote:
Can a ship with a Captain and Smokepot Specialist be given a shoot action to deposit a fog bank after a move action even with no enemies in her proximity/in range?
Yes, if you have a Smokepot Specialist/Shot on your ship you can give it a shoot action without any other specific targets in range.

This works particularly well when used with Fog-Hoppers...
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Subject:    PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:09 pm Reply with quote

woelf wrote:
Correct. He has to already be on the ship when you first give the explore action or he won't work.

So, if he's already on the island when you arrive, the only "quick" way to make use of his ability that turn is to use the free crew transfer when the ship lands, then use an action generator to give the ship a full explore action.

You're better off just keeping him on your ship. Smile


Absolutely, it's just that there were two CJS's in the game and one got tossed overboard by Jonah when Periscope popped up. XD The BR explains lol, I'm just glad we got it right. "The ship?! We're ON the ship!!"

Quote:
Both interpretations have benefits, but I agree that the "her next turn" version is more powerful. The "this turn" wording is really only useful for knocking out point reducers or Cargo Masters when a ship is overloaded, and the rare crew-based defensive ability.

The different versions of the wording had to come from somewhere, so (without actually checking physical cards) I suspect that Wizkids changed the wording a few times along the way and the text in the MT database got copied over from whichever was entered first.

What the ability should have done is shut down crew for the whole round, then there would be no debate. Granted, it would probably need to have its cost go up a bit too.


The "next turn" wording would also shut down point reducers and cargo masters (unless some beginning of turn thing resolved a situation somehow), so it's even better! (I'm overreacting a bit but this could be a seismic shift in competitive deathmatch play, not to mention me being happy about being right way back when heh)
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Subject:    PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:21 pm Reply with quote

Here's a fun one:

Renard à Ailes (from RtSS) + Lenoir, Vicomtesse Angelique de Richelieu

Renard à Ailes
French
Points: 11
Masts: 2 (Junk)
Cargo: 3
Move: S+S+S
Cannons: 2S-2S

Ability: Junk. Once per turn as part of a move action, this ship can randomly take one treasure from any ship up to S away from her.

~~~~~

The question is, can these abilities be combined on the same turn with the Renard taking one coin while within S just before her final move segment, followed by Angelique's heist after touching the enemy ship?

If so, this is an obscure little combo. The link works since it's the same Lenoir from CC that Angelique originally linked to, and since it gives the Renard the extra cargo space she needs for the two coins. It's a long-awaited use for Richelieu, who's not one of the better French crew out there, as well as one of the fun ships from unreleased RtSS. The reroll can help with the ram roll or if you need to board. The trouble is not getting blasted afterwards, but that's when you Parlay your way out of harm's way! Smile

Edit: Another question. Due to the MKL wording, I have to use Eileen Brigid O'Brien on the Celtic Fury if I use Davy Jones to copy the Treasure Ship keyword, correct? (a real party-pooper of a technicality to ruin my latest gimmick, which is raiding enemy home islands with two 10 masters at the same time...)
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