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Fleet Challenge 5-12-08
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czamora
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Subject: Fleet Challenge 5-12-08   PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:40 pm Reply with quote

This is for "International Nurses Day", created in honor of Florence Nightingale.

40 point fleet, deathmatch.
0LR characters allowed.
Need at least one "doctor" crew, like Father Rene Bordeaux, or at least 2 crew that protect other crew, i.e. Tidal Fiends and Merrow, OR a crew that says "this ship's crew cannot be eliminated unless this ship sinks", like John Paul Jones.
More than one nation is allowed, but must still pay heed to Hostile and Loyal keywords.
Also, one Musketeer or Marine is required.
No events.


This is to celebrate "International Nurses Day", a day that I was not aware of until now...yeah.

I apologize if this fleet seems kind of lame, if you have a better suggestion, please throw it out there! It seems like a good idea to me, though. Smile

Also, in the Armies section, please put "____'s IND Fleet"


Last edited by czamora on Tue May 13, 2008 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:50 am Reply with quote

Woooh! I like!

This was exactly what i was hoping for...
But do "crew cannot be eliminated from this ship" crew count for the fleet requirements?
ciao! fede
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:17 pm Reply with quote

I suppose I could put that in there... Smile
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Subject: Re: Fleet Challenge 5-12-08   PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:02 pm Reply with quote

vladsimpaler wrote:

40 point fleet, deathmatch.
0LR characters allowed.


Grrrr. This appears to be becoming a sore spot... If the game is DEATHMATCH and gold is not part of the victory conditions, then no "Ransom" crew should be allowed. If there is no penalty for getting your Ransom crew captured, you're essentially saying "increase your fleet by 5 points for free, at no risk".
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:34 pm Reply with quote

So?

Besides, there is a risk, sorta. If you want the +5 points, you can't use crew like Davy Jones, or anyone else with LIMIT, which in a deathmatch you need to weigh which is better: another 5 build points or an uber-powerful ability? The ransom keyword is just assigned with the +5 points.

AND, I never really considered having a ransom crew as a "risk". If it gets captured or eliminated, it doesn't hurt me any. It just benefits my opponent, in which at this point, I need to bump up my effort.

As far as DM goes, I think its acceptable. Would you be upset if the 0 point crew didn't have Ransom? Then treat it that way in a deathmatch game, because thats what it is.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:40 pm Reply with quote

colringbk wrote:

Besides, there is a risk, sorta. If you want the +5 points, you can't use crew like Davy Jones, or anyone else with LIMIT, which in a deathmatch you need to weigh which is better: another 5 build points or an uber-powerful ability? The ransom keyword is just assigned with the +5 points.


All of the four non-Ransom Limit pieces available in the game are incredibly expensive (at least 11 points) and difficult to fit in a fleet unless you specifically design your fleet around those pieces. The vast majority of fleets either won't use them or can't, so losing the opportunity for doing so isn't much of a "risk". Actually, it's not a risk, it's an "opportunity cost".

The advantages of a Limit Ransom crew were designed to be balanced against the disadvantage of giving gold to your opponent if they are captured/eliminated. Removing that disadvantage gives 5 free points, no risk, to whoever can fit a 0LR crew into their fleet. You might as well just say, if you have an empty cargo space and promise not to use it for the entire game, increase your fleet build by 5 points.

It's a little like playing poker and telling your opponent, "Ok, I get to hold an extra card in my hand, but I have to pay double the ante, so if you win you get more of my money." And then you say, "Oh, by the way, we aren't playing for money."

colringbk wrote:

AND, I never really considered having a ransom crew as a "risk". If it gets captured or eliminated, it doesn't hurt me any. It just benefits my opponent, in which at this point, I need to bump up my effort.


If your opponent is close to winning, that 1 gold or 5 gold could put him over the edge. In order to protect that Ransom crew, you may have to alter your strategy, play more defensively, or protect that ship in a way you wouldn't if there were no Ransom crew on board. If something benefits your opponent, then it's a "risk" in the sense that it's not a good idea to allow him to easily take advantage of that benefit.

colringbk wrote:

As far as DM goes, I think its acceptable. Would you be upset if the 0 point crew didn't have Ransom? Then treat it that way in a deathmatch game, because thats what it is.


Any ability that provides a gold benefit to your opponent should not be allowed in a Deathmatch game, period. If it's an ability that you have to spend points on that gives you a gold benefit (+2 gold, Bonny Peel/Dragon Eyes/etc.), then that can be allowed... although it's not a very smart thing to invest your points in.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:59 pm Reply with quote

Is this your attempt to distract me from building my fleet? Smile

I think I just downright disagree, mainly because I'm greedy and I want an extra 5 build points. You know and I know that gold is not the winning factor in a deathmatch (actually its not even a considered factor), so if you captured my Ransom crew, it doesn't benefit or hinder anyone, in a deathmatch.

Plus, I know that if I were to make a deathmatch fleet with a 0LR at your venue, I'd have to leave those 5 points in my box, right? (you are a privateer, yes?). Anyway, you make some good points, but I still just disagree. Now, I need to go make my IND fleet.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:58 pm Reply with quote

I got mine up, and kept it to 40 points.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:49 pm Reply with quote

Now that I posted a fleet, I have to say that "this ship's crew cannot be eliminated" ability should not have been allowed in this challenge. Thats not much of a challenge! Especially, since good crew like Captain keywords or re-rollers are paired up with that ability. It is much more difficult to find cargo space for the nurses (eliminate this crew instead of another) and doctors (turn a face up crew facedown instead of eliminated) then it is to use some Captain or Re-roller with this ship's crew cannot be eliminated.

Just my two cents.

Also, I noticed that for a deathmatch, the number of masts were kept pretty low.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:58 pm Reply with quote

So far we have:

colringbk's fleet



ziotoo4's fleet



darrin's fleet



milbarber's fleet

No one else wants to challenge? Holo? Blackpirate? Captained? Elsantaclause?

We're waiting for you!

And, vlad, don't think you can skip submitting this week only because you decided the challenge! Very Happy

ciao! Fede
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Subject:    PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:45 pm Reply with quote

ziotoo4 wrote:
And, vlad, don't think you can skip submitting this week only because you decided the challenge! Very Happy

ciao! Fede


Somebody is getting better with coding!!

Vlad--I submitted too though I made the challenge. Get off yer duff and make one!
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Subject:    PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:54 pm Reply with quote

Darrin's fleet is the winner.

Darrin: please make up a challenge for this week using the same "titling guidlines" as before.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:36 pm Reply with quote

what is different between a "doctor" crew and a "this ship's crew cannot be eliminated unless this ship sinks"?
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:51 pm Reply with quote

I would say a Doctor crew "fixes" an elimination: Some face up crew is "mortally wounded", but doctor comes in and keeps him in the game.

This ship's crew can't be eliminated is more like bulletproof armor--you can't be injured where its protected. Its like a divine intervention so your crew can't ever be taken out of the game.

With the exceptions of cancellers.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:03 pm Reply with quote

How is the ability to "fixes" an elimination better then "this ship's crew cannot be eliminated unless this ship sinks"? I still don't see the difference game wise.
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