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Fleet "HMS Grand Temple"

Fleet "HMS Grand Temple"
45 Points
created by a7xfanben Premium Member LV80 activity icon envelope icon
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In my 500 point game and my recent cumulative game (treasure is spent along the way), my HMS Grand Temple (acquired in the summer of 2011) was atrocious in play, being easily sunk in both games without barely touching my opponent. I was very disappointed with the performances, but since she has great stats and people on here rave about her like she's a saint, I decided to give her one more chance to prove her greatness. And has she proved me wrong so far!

The main reason I am posting this fleet is because it has been very successful. 29-13, as of 2/17/2017 (and 15-0 before that). This fleet was designed with just fighting in mind, so it is safe to call it a deathmatch fleet. The help she has consists of the HMS London with captain and helmsman, who are let onboard by Administrator Scott Bratley (the backup ship used to be HMS Meresman). The Temple is decked out with OE Calico Cat and OE Lord Thomas Gunn, as well as a helmsman.

The strategy is obvious and fun, but it has worked so far. I stay out of range of all enemy gunships and wait for an extra action from Cat. This is speeded up quite a lot by Gunn, who provides reroll (2/3 EA's instead of 1/3), and the necessary captain ability. Cat also gives me world-hater, so that two of my guns (S-range) hit 4/6 times, and the L-range guns hit 5/6 times (twos hit ). The Temple waits till the enemies are close enough, then moves 6S suddenly and swoops in and is able to dismast almost any ship (Harbinger was sunk in one broadside) unlucky enough to be there.

The London is the backup (now that I have acquired her), with 4 guns that hit 2/3 of the time. Before I strike, I position her to somewhat block the lines of fire to the Temple.


The first fleet that was mauled was a fleet with Enterprise, Recreant, and Ladron (with captains, +5 crew). The second fleet, with the Longshanks, Recreant, and Silverback, fell even quicker. Then I destroyed a fleet with the SM Harbinger and SM Sea Nymph. The fourth fleet I don't remember what ships I used. The last fleet, a swarm fleet with 10 ships, was blown out of the water (I could take out 3-4 ships per turn). All these fleets faced the HMS Grand Temple fleet in a series of three 40 point deathmatches, and all lost. I may not test this fleet again soon, so she goes on hiatus with an undefeated 15-0 record.

Edit: Just added a few nasty UT's if I run this fleet in a regular game (not deathmatch).

Edit: Fleet's record is now 18-6, read comment below.

Edit: Switched out Griffin for Lord Thomas Gunn, and made the helmsman English, so a canceler wouldn't be able to cancel all three crew at once by cancelling the Temple's ship ability.

Edit (1/6/13): Switched out HMS Meresman for the London, thanks to the suggestion by relvar99. This dramatically improves the potential of the backup ship to aid the Temple, as the firepower more than doubles with twice the quantity (4 guns vs. 2) and added quality (rank-2's with 2 being L-range). I will test this improved version of the fleet, possibly next month.

Edit (2/2/13): Another series of three games had this fleet facing an all-treasure fleet consisting of the Tiger's Eye, La Dijon, Le Bon Marin, Le Coeur du Lion, Coral, and Rover. It was no contest, with the GT fleet winning all three times in dominating fashion.

The final three games pitted the GT fleet against the Pirate fleet with the Darkhawk II, Raven, and Bonnie Liz. This fleet was harder for the Grand Temple and the London to defeat, but the English still won all three games. In addition, there was no English bias involved, as I even made the English HI extra-far-away from the rest of the islands for the last game, to give the Pirates a head start running gold.

This brings the record of this fleet to 24-6, and it appears that the GT fleet is only to be defeated by fleets utilizing defensive abilities or cancellers .

Edit (2/3/13): Today three games were played: 40 point deathmatches between the HMS Grand Temple fleet and the Acorazado fleet. It was the first time the GT fleet faced the Acorazado fleet with the London instead of the Meresman, so I expected the English to do better than before. They didn't. El Acorazado won all three games, and never lost more than two masts in any one game. Now this fleet is 24-9.

Edit (2/20/13): This fleet beat Norvegia in all three games. The GT was able to crush the treasure runners before they got back home. The devastating UT's helped a bunch, but the English still won the third game despite not using the UT's. The fleet's record is now 27-9.

Edit (1/20/17): After losing in the second round in VASSAL Tournament #2, this fleet's record is now 29-13 for a .690 winning percentage. At 42 games it's my most-tested fleet, and not many fleets out there have been put to the test like this one has.

 
Miniature list Group miniatures by  
Miniatures without Section (1 miniatures)
1 x HMS Grand Temple HMS Grand Temple (PatOE)
  • Collector's Number: 044
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Ship
  • Point Value: 15
  • Cargo Space: 3
  • Base Move: S+S
  • Cannons: 3S,3S,2L,2L,2L,2L
  • Number of Masts: 6
Miniature text:

Junk. Pirate crew may use their abilities on this ship.

Admiral Kenyon made a great show of the Jade Rebellion surrendering this ship to his forces, and now uses her as his flagship to symbolize English power.

 
Section: Ship #1 (3 miniatures)
1 x Calico Cat Calico Cat (PatOE)
  • Collector's Number: 038
  • Faction Affiliation: Pirate
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Crew
  • Point Value: 6
Miniature text:

Once per turn, roll a d6. On a 5 or 6, this ship may be given an extra action. This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against any non-Pirate ship.

The Cat seems to have used up another one of her lives. After being reported dead in the South China Seas, she somehow managed to steal an English merchantman loaded with silk and gold from Africa.

1 x Helmsman Helmsman (PofSMU)
  • Collector's Number: 110
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: C
  • Type: Crew
  • Point Value: 2
Miniature text:

This ship gets +S to her base move.

1 x Lord Thomas Gunn Lord Thomas Gunn (PatOE)
  • Collector's Number: 054
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Crew
  • Point Value: 6
Miniature text:

This ship may move and shoot using the same move action. Once per turn, you may reroll any die roll you make for this ship; you must use the second die roll result.

Gunn’s exploits under his father’s guidance won him acclaim with his crew and his military commanders. His victories for the English Crown won him his own title, his pick of ships, and the freedom to follow his own counsel at sea.

 
Section: Ship #2 (4 miniatures)
1 x Administrator Scott Bratley Administrator Scott Bratley (PofCC)
  • Collector's Number: 046B
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: C
  • Type: Crew
  • Point Value: 0
Miniature text:

Limit, Ransom. Place this crew face up during setup. You may build your fleet using 5 more points than the build total. This crew cannot leave this ship unless it is captured or eliminated.

Scott Bratley is Governor Lynch's secret to keeping the Empire's interests prospering in the Caribbean. Administrator Bratley is solely responsible for the smooth working of the fleet and the thriving trade, and he seems able to summon resources out of thin air.

1 x Captain Captain (PofSM)
  • Collector's Number: EC-CA
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: U
  • Type: Crew
  • Point Value: 3
Miniature text:

This ship may move and shoot using the same move action.

1 x HMS London HMS London (PofCC)
  • Collector's Number: 034
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: U
  • Type: Ship
  • Point Value: 11
  • Cargo Space: 4
  • Base Move: S+S
  • Cannons: 2S-2L-2L-2S
  • Number of Masts: 4
Miniature text:

When touching a Pirate ship, this ship may load as much of that ship's treasure as she can carry.

Much of the London's crew was pressed into service from among the brawny stevedores working the London docks, hence their skill and speed in loading their ship with captured booty.

1 x Helmsman Helmsman (PofSM)
  • Collector's Number: EC-HM
  • Faction Affiliation: England
  • Rarity: C
  • Type: Crew
  • Point Value: 2
Miniature text:

This ship gets +S to her base move.

 
Section: Unique Treasures (5 miniatures)
1 x Maps of Hades Maps of Hades (PofDJC)
  • Collector's Number: 103
  • Faction Affiliation: Treasure
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Unique Treasure
  • Point Value: 0
Miniature text:

Once per turn, before this ship is given an action, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, the opponent to your right may give this ship a move action. If he or she does, this ship may not be given another action that turn.

1 x Missionary Missionary (PofRU)
  • Collector's Number: UL109
  • Faction Affiliation: Treasure
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Unique Treasure
  • Point Value: 0
Miniature text:

Remove all crew on this ship from the game and then remove Missionary from the game.

1 x Monkey`s Paw Monkey's Paw (PofDJC)
  • Collector's Number: 101
  • Faction Affiliation: Treasure
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Unique Treasure
  • Point Value: 0
Miniature text:

Once per turn when an enemy ship is given a shoot action to shoot at this ship, her controller chooses one of her cannons within range: That cannon automatically hits.

1 x Natives Natives (PofRU)
  • Collector's Number: UL106
  • Faction Affiliation: Treasure
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Unique Treasure
  • Point Value: 0
Miniature text:

The ship that reveals Natives may not be given actions for a number of rounds equal to number of crew on her when Natives is revealed. Leave Natives face down on its island.

1 x Wolves Wolves (PofBCU)
  • Collector's Number: 103
  • Faction Affiliation: Treasure
  • Rarity: R
  • Type: Unique Treasure
  • Point Value: 0
Miniature text:

No treasure may be loaded from this wild island until Wolves is eliminated. Wolves is eliminated if successfully hit once by either a Musketeer or a crew with the Marine keyword.

 
Fleet Statistics
Distribution by Base Move
- bar 11  85 %  
S+S bar 15 %  
 

Distribution by Cargo Space
- bar 11  85 %  
3 bar 8 %  
4 bar 8 %  
 

Distribution by Faction Affiliation
England bar 54 %  
Pirate bar 8 %  
Treasure bar 38 %  
 

Distribution by Number of Masts
- bar 11  85 %  
4 bar 8 %  
6 bar 8 %  
 

Distribution by Point Value
- bar 46 %  
11 bar 8 %  
15 bar 8 %  
2 bar 15 %  
3 bar 8 %  
6 bar 15 %  
 

Distribution by Rarity
C bar 23 %  
R bar 62 %  
U bar 15 %  
 

Distribution by Type
Crew bar 46 %  
Ship bar 15 %  
Unique Treasure bar 38 %  
 



Rating
Current score for this Fleet, based on 15 votes:

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Discussion about this Fleet
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woelf
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Subject:    Posted: September 1, 2011 11:02 am

Great write-up!

So many of the fleets that get posted here are just theoretical, so it always nice to hear a little more about how it performed in an actual game.


As far as the fleet itself goes, I'm guessing you play mostly against people with fairly limited collections, or players that (by mutual agreement) choose not to use many of the "trickier" items like cancelers, crew-killers, and L-immunities.

HMS Grand Temple is set up about as well as anyone could hope, although the lack of any defensive capability beyond having a whole bunch of masts and pretty good speed could leave it vulnerable, especially to a ship with a canceler. One of those could stop GT dead in its tracks, making it a very easy target to pick apart. Crew-killers and even boarding actions could be dangerous too, because it won't take much before you'll start losing important crew and their abilities. Striking first is critical, and with the help of Griffin's reroll you should be getting the double action more often than not.

HMS Meresman was a great support ship back in the day, and even now it could provide a few surprises especially if it manages to hit something from SS range. Next to Grand Temple, though, it seems to be mostly just along for the ride since it's not fast enough to keep up with the SAT boost. It must have been good for picking up the scraps though. Given the restrictions (11 points left to spend and had to be English) it's probably your best option. Bilge has several advantages over HMS Meresman, but it also has the disadvantage of being a single-masted ship so one ram can knock it out of the fight.


A few events could cause some major problems for this fleet too, but you never mentioned them so I'm assuming they don't get used much or at all in your group. A gunship with an immunity to L-range cannons would be a bit threat too since Grand Temple loses the majority of its firepower.

Other than those few things, this looks pretty good. In a hardcore, anything goes sort of fight this fleet could struggle, but in a friendlier environment like what you seem to be describing it has obviously done very well. Looking at the fleet alone I'd put this somewhere between 3 and 4, but I enjoyed your write-up so I'll bump this to a 5.
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a7xfanben Premium Member
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Subject:    Posted: September 1, 2011 07:59 pm

Thanks Woelf, my first five. Good to hear comprehensive feedback after my last fleet was neglected.
I actually don't have people to play with, I just play for fun. There aren't any rules pertaining to limiting crew-killers, cancelers, etc. I should sometime test this fleet against my Asesino de la Nave fleet. I think this fleet would still win, though. The reason is this: the HMS Grand Temple, with the crew on her that I use, can strike any ship with the S+S+S+S+S+S speed. The guns are good enough to take down at least four masts, with the potential to dismast/sink anything with six or less masts (I don't have any Krakens or 10 masters). Basically, she can put almost any ship (SM Acorazado would be a good test) in my collection out of action, and the only ships fast enough (combined with SAT/EA) to hit the Temple before she hit them are ships that can't withstand many hits. Even then, I could still use the 66% of the time EA to double shoot if needed (because of masts lost in the first opponents' broadside). Striking first is indeed critical (almost a must), but I did strike first by staying out of range, then suddenly swooping in and sinking the best enemy gunship. The boarding actions are a great point, and I wasn't boarded by any big ships. The smaller ones, notably in the swarm fleet, were able to eliminate a crew in two of the three games (helmsman). L-range cannot hit this ship is an ability that not many of my ships have (collection is at 381, including many duplicates), so that has not come up yet (I have the Jarvis, but she is expensive and I don't like her guns).

The Meresman was even more useless than I thought she would be, but I seem to have the most annoying habit of rolling terrible luck with gun rolls. Basically, this lamentable fact, combined with the fact that I prefer a battle of broadsides to passive treasure running, has led me to the decision that from now on, all my gunships have to have at least rank-two guns, and very preferably with a world-hater to make TWOS HIT (if I could post my fantasy set, this would this would lead to a few shocked emoticons). The Meresman therefore didn't really provide help. Maybe I could use a ship such as the Sea Tiger (S+S+S, two masts, 6 points) to put on Bratley, and use the extra 5 for events (FotG, Merm.). Alas, I only have one event , False Treasure, probably the worst event made. This takes care of events, as I would prefer not to use proxies, simply because...
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relvar99
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Subject:    Posted: September 2, 2011 04:32 am

With 11 points left to spend, and no limit crew in the fleet, couldn't you have included the HMS London, Administrator Scott Bratley, then a Captain and a Helmsman for the London? I think that's then 45 points, and you get a much, much better support ship with S+S+S move. Two amazing gunships now that I think about it.

If you did include Administrator Scott Bratley, you could put a Captain on the London and save the remaining two points for meat shields or Favor of the Gods

Good fleet however.
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a7xfanben Premium Member
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Subject:    Posted: September 2, 2011 06:13 am

That is a great idea, it is just that I don't have the London, or else that would be the way to go. I was only considering ships/crew that I have in my collection (so I can play games with the fleet). That is definitely an improvement, though, and now I want the London.
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desoto_reloaded
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Subject:    Posted: September 5, 2011 07:21 am

Looks like a great combo. Wo_elf covered most anything I planned on saying, so just read his comment again but add a few $%@*'s to it.

Note from Me: I personally hate the Grand Temple. Too big, too cheap. Seems like everybody uses it. It is right up there (in my Opinion) with Lord Mycron and the Banshee's Cry.
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a7xfanben Premium Member
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Subject:    Posted: September 5, 2011 05:21 pm

I used the Temple because the English are my favourite faction. I also just got her this summer, and wanted to try her out. Five masters are cooler than junks anyway. She's just a captured junk without the Nelson paint job, so outside the great stats, bleah.
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puma_03
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Subject:    Posted: September 9, 2011 04:48 pm

I would reccomend using Admin. Scott Bratley for something. But I guess if you don't have him, you don't have him. Shouldn't be to hard to get, he's just a common after all.

This fleet is not bad at all. HMS GT is certainly used a lot. I would personally have priced her at at least 20 points. But she is still a great ship in my collection.

I do agree that the Meresman doesn't add much at all. Again, Scott Bratley would be the best solution. Or, using Cmdr. Rhys Gryffyn Owen would cut down on the cost from Griffin, as well as not taking up space.

And just as a side note, the chance of an extra action with the reroll actually is closer to 57%, I think
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a7xfanben Premium Member
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Subject:    Posted: September 9, 2011 05:27 pm

I was just thinking 1/3 and 1/3 would double the chances. If I said I didn't have Bratley, I was lying, I was only talking about the London. With the captain/helmsman on the Meresman, I didn't have room for him.
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a7xfanben Premium Member
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Subject: A set of challenges   Posted: February 17, 2012 09:17 pm

I finally tested this fleet against some "tougher" deathmatch fleets I came up with using stuff from my collection. The fleets opposing the HMS Grand Temple fleet were specifically designed to beat the GT fleet in particular. Each of the three fleets would face the Temple fleet in a three-game set (with each game being played out regardless of the winner of the first two games).

The first fleet of the three:
Le Bonaparte (DJC): 16 points
Capitaine Gaston de St. Croix: 5
Jordan Dumas: 6
Christian Fiore: 6 (yes I know this is illegal, I essentially took out the Ex-Patriot keyword to bring the point cost to 5, or you could say I used him as a proxy for Monsieur LeNoir, the French canceler)
Longshanks: 6
"Cannonball" Gallows: 0 (+5)
Captain: 3
Helmsman: 2
Fire Shot: 1

The strategy would be to combine the abilities of Le Bonaparte (cannot be shot at by ships within S) and Fiore's canceler by engaging the Temple at close range. The Longshanks would support her, possibly dealing with the Meresman if she got in the way.
This strategy worked mostly because the Temple was not able to maneuver perfectly (at least not more than once in the three games) so that she could shoot all four of her L-range guns while staying more than S away from the Bonaparte. The Bonaparte would close in, and with the help of the SAT from Croix, successfully sink the Temple, who would be almost powerless against the canceler. The Longshanks and the Meresman fought some in these games, but almost canceled each other out.
This fleet beat the GT fleet two out of three times, with the only exception coming when the GT had perfect positioning so that her L-range guns were brought to bear and dismasted the Bonaparte.
(1-2)

The second fleet:
Soleil Royal: 13
Vicomte Jules de Cissey: 0 (+5)
Captain: 3
Helmsman: 2
Fire Shot: 1
Santa Teresa: 9
Nemesio Diaz: 5
Snipe: 6
Christian Fiore: 6

Both the Santa Teresa and Snipe are one-masted sloops from SM with immunity to L-range guns. They would try to sail on either side of the Soleil Royal, who would then move in for the kill after the two cancelers stripped the Temple (and the Meresman) down. The two sloops were basically immune to cannon fire (L-range immunity + canceled captains if enemy within S), but the huge weakness of this strategy was quickly apparent: one ram had a good chance of dismasting a sloop, making the all-important cancelers stationary.
The GT fleet won two of the three games against this fleet, one by ramming the cancelers out of action (then the Temple would circle around the trio with 6S movement to sink the Soleil Royal), and one by a stroke of luck, when the Meresman used her ship's ability of doubled cannon range to take out the Snipe (with a 'sniping' ability ).
(2-1)

The third and final test:
El Acorazado: 21
Capitan Alarico Castro: 3
Luis Zuan: 7
Joaquin Vega: 4
Nemesio Diaz: 5
Helmsman: 2
El Algeciras: 3
Contessa Anita Amore: 0 (+5)

This fleet was to let the GT come to "The Battleship", and then let her despair against the nearly impenetrable walls of defense around the Spanish gunship (3 hits for first mast, 2 for the rest, essentially can only fire from L-range b/c canceler would take out GT's ship ability, taking out the captain ability as well). El Algeciras was only there to provide cargo space for Amore, and try her best to hold off the Meresman (who didn't factor in anyway). This fleet was the most impressive in battle and also the most intimidating. I was not surprised when the Spanish won all three times. The GT was only able to knock out four masts total over the three games, and then she fell to El Acorazado's improved guns (Zuan has world-hater). I honestly think this particular fleet would always beat the GT fleet, too many defenses to get through, even with the immense firepower of the GT with her crew.
(0-3)

Therefore, my HMS Grand Temple fleet now has a record of 18-6, still very impressive . A combination of cancelers and S or L immunities appear to be the way to go against her, but the easiest way to beat her is with the legendary El Acorazado.
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a7xfanben Premium Member
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Subject:    Posted: February 2, 2013 05:23 pm

Another series of three games had this fleet facing an all-treasure fleet consisting of the Tiger's Eye, La Dijon, Le Bon Marin, Le Coeur du Lion, Coral, and Rover. It was no contest, with the GT fleet winning all three times in dominating fashion.

The final three games pitted the GT fleet against the Pirate fleet with the Darkhawk II, Raven, and Bonnie Liz. This fleet was harder for the Grand Temple and the London to defeat, but the English still won all three games. In addition, there was no English bias involved, as I even made the English HI extra-far-away from the rest of the islands for the last game, to give the Pirates a head start running gold.

This brings the record of this fleet to 24-6, and it appears that the GT fleet is only to be defeated by fleets utilizing defensive abilities or cancellers .

Edit (2/3/13): Today three games were played: 40 point deathmatches between the HMS Grand Temple fleet and the Acorazado fleet. It was the first time the GT fleet faced the Acorazado fleet with the London instead of the Meresman, so I expected the English to do better than before. They didn't. El Acorazado won all three games, and never lost more than two masts in any one game. Now this fleet is 24-9.
Back to top Modified on February 3, 2013 12:51 pm 
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